Discussion:
[fonc] Morphic 3 defensive disclosure
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2013-12-04 02:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi Folks,

The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657
..

Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html

This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able
to patent it.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Dan Amelang
2013-12-05 00:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Juan,

I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.

Best,

Dan

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2013-12-05 01:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,

I'd be delighted to help you do that!

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-17 13:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan, Folks,

I finally published the Morphic 3 code in its current state. It is
still unfinished, and in need of cleanup. I hope you are still
interested in this stuff.

See
http://jvuletich.org/pipermail/cuis_jvuletich.org/2014-September/001692.html I
attached there a demo image with some SVG drawings, and some text at
rather small sizes, and some rotated text too. This took me a lot of
time, because for maximum text quality I had to design a new font,
based on pen strokes (and not fills!). I based it on the technical
lettering I learned at high school.

I think I'm now close to the limit of what is possible on regular LCDs
when trying to optimize crispness, absence of pixellation and absence
of color fringes. What I need to do now is to fill in some details,
then optimization and a VM plugin. Then it could become the default
graphics engine for Cuis ( www.cuis-smalltalk.org ).

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Dan Amelang
2014-09-17 21:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Juan,

Glad that you're making progress! One question: how hard would it be to use
a TrueType font (or any fill-based font) with your rasterizer? And, I would
be interested in comparing the visual results of rendering 1) a TrueType
font via FreeType, 2) a TrueType font via your Morphic 3 rasterizer, 3)
your stroke font via the Morphic 3 rasterizer.

I know option 3) produces the best quality, I'm just interested in the
visual details. Such a comparison might also be helpful to showcase and
explain your work to others.

Dan

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:25 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) <
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan, Folks,
I finally published the Morphic 3 code in its current state. It is still
unfinished, and in need of cleanup. I hope you are still interested in this
stuff.
See http://jvuletich.org/pipermail/cuis_jvuletich.org/
2014-September/001692.html I attached there a demo image with some SVG
drawings, and some text at rather small sizes, and some rotated text too.
This took me a lot of time, because for maximum text quality I had to
design a new font, based on pen strokes (and not fills!). I based it on the
technical lettering I learned at high school.
I think I'm now close to the limit of what is possible on regular LCDs
when trying to optimize crispness, absence of pixellation and absence of
color fringes. What I need to do now is to fill in some details, then
optimization and a VM plugin. Then it could become the default graphics
engine for Cuis ( www.cuis-smalltalk.org ).
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Hi Juan,
Post by Dan Amelang
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-
antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-18 14:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,

(redending without attachs)
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
Glad that you're making progress! One question: how hard would it be to use
a TrueType font (or any fill-based font) with your rasterizer? And, I would
be interested in comparing the visual results of rendering 1) a TrueType
font via FreeType, 2) a TrueType font via your Morphic 3 rasterizer, 3)
your stroke font via the Morphic 3 rasterizer.
It is some work, as the TrueType font needs to be imported. I already
did this for DejaVu, printing a text sample to pdf, then converting
that to svg with Inkscape, and then loading the svg in Cuis / Morphic
3 and using a "CodeGeneratingCanvas" to write the Smalltalk code for
me. Loading Image... is a
sample image using just that font.
And, I would be interested in comparing the visual results of rendering
1) a TrueType font via FreeType, 2) a TrueType font via your Morphic 3
rasterizer, 3) your stroke font via the Morphic 3 rasterizer.
Taking a look at M3-TTF.png, and the original
Loading Image... , and comparing
with FreeType samples (for example, the regular Cuis fonts), I think
that (sorted by visual quality):

a) For pointSize <=14
1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont with autohinting
2) Feetype / TrueType with autohinting
3) Morphic 3 / TrueType (no autohinting possible yet)
Note 1: For M3/TTF I could take the autohinting algorithm from
Freetype, and quality would be at least on par with it, for point
sizes >= 9
Note 2: For point sizes < 9 (fills less than one pixel), M3/TTF
produces color fringes. I think this can be enhanced with some work.
I didn't spend much time on these issues, as I focused on StrokeFonts,
that give best results, at least for a programming environment.
Applications might need TTF, and there are possible enhancements to be
done.

b) Rotated text. Here the difference in quality is rather small.
1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont (autohinting off)
2) Feetype / TrueType
3) Morphic 3 / TrueType

c) Point sizes > 14. Here I think the three alternatives look really
good, no autohinting is needed, and there is no clear winner. (Same
would go for most point sizes on a Retina or other hi dpi display,
such as phones.)
Post by Dan Amelang
I know option 3) produces the best quality, I'm just interested in the
visual details. Such a comparison might also be helpful to showcase and
explain your work to others.
It is also worth noting that the usual Cairo + Freetype (or Cairo +
Pango + Freetype) combo uses different algorithms for text and
graphics, as Freetype can do much better than Cairo, but can not do
general vector graphics. But Morphic 3 gives the same top quality for
vector graphics too, as text is done simply by calling the svg like
graphics primitives. Where Morphic 3 really stands out is when
comparing against Cairo for drawing vector graphics!

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Dan
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:25 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) <
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan, Folks,
I finally published the Morphic 3 code in its current state. It is still
unfinished, and in need of cleanup. I hope you are still interested in this
stuff.
See http://jvuletich.org/pipermail/cuis_jvuletich.org/
2014-September/001692.html I attached there a demo image with some SVG
drawings, and some text at rather small sizes, and some rotated text too.
This took me a lot of time, because for maximum text quality I had to
design a new font, based on pen strokes (and not fills!). I based it on the
technical lettering I learned at high school.
I think I'm now close to the limit of what is possible on regular LCDs
when trying to optimize crispness, absence of pixellation and absence of
color fringes. What I need to do now is to fill in some details, then
optimization and a VM plugin. Then it could become the default graphics
engine for Cuis ( www.cuis-smalltalk.org ).
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Hi Juan,
Post by Dan Amelang
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-
antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Dan Amelang
2014-09-19 05:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi Juan,

Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal to
have a visual like this to for the comparison:
Loading Image.... But, I know
that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing wouldn't be
very high priority. Maybe down the road.

Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open sourced
Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too (
http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/).
As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the
state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're
making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the
quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to
do so.

Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts, I'm
attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more recent
M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the saturated colors in
the middle of the black text. You mentioned that you have color fringing
problems with <9 point sizes, but this font is about 12pt and the problem
doesn't look like color fringing (i.e., the coloring isn't light nor just
on the fringes, see
Loading Image... for what I
understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is going on
here?

Back to your comments...I also like the idea of having a single rasterizer
for text and general graphics. At least one that can be just parametrized
or extended to handle text nicely as needed.

Yes, there is no question that one can improve on the visual output of the
popular rasterizers (cairo, skia, antigrain, qt, etc.). The question has
always been at what cost to software complexity and at what cost to
performance.

I wasn't able to mentally separate your rasterization code from the rest of
the Morphic 3 code (I'm not a big Smalltalker, so maybe it's just me), so I
couldn't evaluate the complexity cost. It also looked like there were
several optimizations mixed in that could have thrown off my understanding.

Would you be interested in creating a clean, totally not optimized (and
thus slow), stand alone version of the rasterizer just for exposition
purposes? Something for people like me to learn from? Again, I know you
have very limited time. No rush.

Dan

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:38 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) <
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan,
Hi Juan,
Post by Dan Amelang
Glad that you're making progress! One question: how hard would it be to
use a TrueType font (or any fill-based font) with your rasterizer?
It is some work, as the TrueType font needs to be imported. I already did
this for DejaVu, printing a text sample to pdf, then converting that to svg
with Inkscape, and then loading the svg in Cuis / Morphic 3 and using a
"CodeGeneratingCanvas" to write the Smalltalk code for me. The attach is a
sample image using just that font.
And, I would be interested in comparing the visual results of rendering
Post by Dan Amelang
1) a TrueType font via FreeType, 2) a TrueType font via your Morphic 3
rasterizer, 3) your stroke font via the Morphic 3 rasterizer.
Taking a look at the attach, and the original attach in the mail linked
below, and comparing with FreeType samples (for example, the regular Cuis
a) For pointSize <=14
1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont with autohinting
2) Feetype / TrueType with autohinting
3) Morphic 3 / TrueType (no autohinting possible yet)
Note 1: For M3/TTF I could take the autohinting algorithm from Freetype,
and quality would be at least on par with it, for point sizes >= 9
Note 2: For point sizes < 9 (fills less than one pixel), M3/TTF produces
color fringes. I think this can be enhanced with some work.
I didn't spend much time on these issues, as I focused on StrokeFonts,
that give best results, at least for a programming environment.
Applications might need TTF, and there are possible enhancements to be done.
b) Rotated text. Here the difference in quality is rather small.
1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont (autohinting off)
2) Feetype / TrueType
3) Morphic 3 / TrueType
c) Point sizes > 14. Here I think the three alternatives look really good,
no autohinting is needed, and there is no clear winner. (Same would go for
most point sizes on a Retina or other hi dpi display, such as phones.)
I know option 3) produces the best quality, I'm just interested in
Post by Dan Amelang
the visual details. Such a comparison might also be helpful to showcase
and explain your work to others.
It is also worth noting that the usual Cairo + Freetype (or Cairo + Pango
+ Freetype) combo uses different algorithms for text and graphics, as
Freetype can do much better than Cairo, but can not do general vector
graphics. But Morphic 3 gives the same top quality for vector graphics too,
as text is done simply by calling the svg like graphics primitives. Where
Morphic 3 really stands out is when comparing against Cairo for drawing
vector graphics!
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Dan
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:25 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan, Folks,
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
I finally published the Morphic 3 code in its current state. It is
still unfinished, and in need of cleanup. I hope you are still
interested in this stuff.
See
http://jvuletich.org/pipermail/cuis_jvuletich.org/
2014-September/001692.html
I attached there a demo image with some SVG drawings, and some text at
rather small sizes, and some rotated text too. This took me a lot of
time,
because for maximum text quality I had to design a new font, based on pen
strokes (and not fills!). I based it on the technical lettering I learned
at high school.
I think I'm now close to the limit of what is possible on regular LCDs
when trying to optimize crispness, absence of pixellation and absence
of color fringes. What I need to do now is to fill in some details,
then optimization and a VM plugin. Then it could become the default
graphics engine for Cuis ( www.cuis-smalltalk.org[1] ).
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Hi Juan,
Post by Dan Amelang
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-
antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
Post by Dan Amelang
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
------
[1] http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-19 13:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
 
Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal to
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jensonw-900.png. But, I know
that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing wouldn't
be very high priority. Maybe down the road.
 
Yes, that would be cool. Maybe I find some time to do it in the soon.
Post by Dan Amelang
Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open sourced
Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too
(http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/).
As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the
state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're
making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the
quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to
do
Post by Dan Amelang
so.
 
Yes, the CFF hinter does a great job. The difference between the 3 samples
you is only in hinting. The three of them are drawn with whole pixel
coverage AA. Hinting outlines is really hard. And very specific to not
only to text but to a particular font specification: Hinting TTF and CFF
requires 2 different algorithms. Besides, it is slow (really slow). Because
of this, once drawn, the glyphs are usually cached for subsequent use. But
this means that you need to draw glyphs at integer pixel coordinates, so
you can reuse the cached rasterized glyphs.

All this goes against several of my objectives. I want that:
- Nothing is forced on a pixel grid. Any glyph can be drawn at any float
coordinates anytime, without performance penalty. This precludes the use of
a cache of rasterized glyphs.
- The same algorithm is used for graphics and text. I don't want complex
code that specific to TTF hinting.

So, for TTF, I do no hinting at all! My TTF samples look reasonably good
because (these are the focus of my defensive disclosure, and the heart of
my engine):
- I use something better than pixel coverage: prefiltering.
- I sample at the subpixel position, not at whole pixels.

So, I'm not claiming that my StrokeFont looks better than Adobe's CFF
sophisticated hinting. I say that my StrokeFonts look better than TTF
without any hinting at all, i.e. that my engine does a better job at
StrokeFonts than it can do at TTF; and better than, for example, Apple,
that doesn't do hinting either.

I believe that Adobe's CFF hinting, but rasterizing with prefiltering and
subpixel sampling (like I do) would give the best results of all. (if we
restrict to pixel grid for glyph position, and admit having comples, text
specific code).
Post by Dan Amelang
Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts,  I'm
attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more recent
M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the saturated colors
in the middle of the black text. You mentioned that you have color
fringing problems with <9 point sizes, but this font is about 12pt and
the problem doesn't look like color fringing (i.e., the coloring isn't
light nor just on the fringes, see
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gdi-cleartype.png for what I
understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is going
on here?
 
Yes. Those look like bugs, and I'll look into them. Those need to be fixed!

I'm attaching a sample of color fringes from M3-TTF.png, and the somewhate
better M3-TTF-5.png to show what I meant.
Post by Dan Amelang
Back to your comments...I also like the idea of having a single
rasterizer for text and general graphics. At least one that can be just
parametrized or extended to handle text nicely as needed.
Yes, there is no question that one can improve on the visual output
of the popular rasterizers (cairo, skia, antigrain, qt, etc.). The
question has always been at what cost to software complexity and at what
cost to performance.
 
Agreed. And I add to complexity and performace, the desire to draw glyphs
not only at integer pixel positions, as I said above.
Post by Dan Amelang
I wasn't able to mentally separate your rasterization code from the rest
of the Morphic 3 code (I'm not a big Smalltalker, so maybe it's just
me), so I couldn't evaluate the complexity cost. It also looked like
there were several optimizations mixed in that could have thrown off my
understanding.
 
It is not just you, you don't need to be polite! The engine is for a
Morphic UI, and handles the nested coordinate systems, possible clipping to
the owner's shape, and the identification of the morph at any pixel (to
dispatch Morphic events). Besides, it is an early stage, full of nearly
repeated code and experiments. It is even full of comments in Spanish that
were meant to be transient, and just for me! It is far from the mean code
quality of Cuis, for example.

To get faster to the relevant parts, try following this with the debugger:

(Morphic3Canvas onForm: Display) into: self runningWorld;
intoLocation: (MatrixTransform2x3 withRadians: 0 scale: 16 position:
***@182) negateYAxisAndAngle;
setupBorderWidth: 2 borderColor: Color red fillColor: nil strokeDashArray:
nil strokeDashArrayOffset: nil;
drawM3Box;
finishTrajectory;
setupBorderWidth: 16 borderColor: Color green fillColor: nil
strokeDashArray: nil strokeDashArrayOffset: nil;
initializeTrajectory;
drawM3Sans64;
finishTrajectory.
Display forceToScreen

The interesting methods are #addCurrentToTrajectory, that computes distance
to the edge for affected pixels (for any trajectory of the pen), and
#zMark1blendNoBackgroundAlphaAtX:y:pixelIndex:redIsInside:greenIsInside:blueIsInside:
that blends to the destination surface. The 2 senders to #zMark1... are for
drawing with and without fill.
Post by Dan Amelang
Would you be interested in creating a clean, totally not optimized (and
thus slow), stand alone version of the rasterizer just for exposition
purposes? Something for people like me to learn from? Again, I know you
have very limited time. No rush.
 
Yes, I could do that. The features provided would be just drawing some
shapes or glyphs, not unlike the snippet above, but trimmed of all
superfluous Morphic stuff and experiments. Just give me a few days and I'll
prepare it, in addition to fixing the "saturated color pixels" bug you
mentioned.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Dan
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:38 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
 Hi Dan,
 
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
 
Glad that you're making progress! One question: how hard would it be to
use a TrueType font (or any fill-based font) with your rasterizer?
It is some work, as the TrueType font needs to be imported. I already
did this for DejaVu, printing a text sample to pdf, then converting
that to svg with Inkscape, and then loading the svg in Cuis / Morphic 3
and using a "CodeGeneratingCanvas" to write the Smalltalk code for me.
The attach is a sample image using just that font.
Post by Dan Amelang
And, I would be interested in comparing the visual results of rendering
1) a TrueType font via FreeType, 2) a TrueType font via your Morphic 3
rasterizer, 3) your stroke font via the Morphic 3 rasterizer.
Taking a look at the attach, and the original attach in the mail linked
below, and comparing with FreeType samples (for example, the regular
a) For pointSize <=14
  1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont with autohinting
  2) Feetype / TrueType with autohinting
  3) Morphic 3 / TrueType (no autohinting possible yet)
Note 1: For M3/TTF I could take the autohinting algorithm from
Freetype, and quality would be at least on par with it, for point sizes
Post by Dan Amelang
= 9
Note 2: For point sizes < 9 (fills less than one pixel), M3/TTF
produces color fringes. I think this can be enhanced with some work.
I didn't spend much time on these issues, as I focused on StrokeFonts,
that give best results, at least for a programming environment.
Applications might need TTF, and there are possible enhancements to be done.
b) Rotated text. Here the difference in quality is rather small.
  1) Morphic 3 / StrokeFont (autohinting off)
  2) Feetype / TrueType
  3) Morphic 3 / TrueType
c) Point sizes > 14. Here I think the three alternatives look really
good, no autohinting is needed, and there is no clear winner. (Same
would go for most point sizes on a Retina or other hi dpi display, such
as phones.)
Post by Dan Amelang
    I know option 3) produces the best quality, I'm just interested
in
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by Dan Amelang
the visual details. Such a comparison might also be helpful to showcase
and explain your work to others.
It is also worth noting that the usual Cairo + Freetype (or Cairo +
Pango + Freetype) combo uses different algorithms for text and
graphics, as Freetype can do much better than Cairo, but can not do
general vector graphics. But Morphic 3 gives the same top quality for
vector graphics too, as text is done simply by calling the svg like
graphics primitives. Where Morphic 3 really stands out is when
comparing against Cairo for drawing vector graphics!
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dan Amelang
Dan
   On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:25 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
 
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan, Folks,
I finally published the Morphic 3 code in its current state. It is
still unfinished, and in need of cleanup. I hope you are still
interested in this stuff.
See
http://jvuletich.org/pipermail/cuis_jvuletich.org/2014-September/001692.html
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
I attached there a demo image with some SVG drawings, and some text at
rather small sizes, and some rotated text too. This took me a lot of
time,
because for maximum text quality I had to design a new font, based on pen
strokes (and not fills!). I based it on the technical lettering I learned
at high school.
I think I'm now close to the limit of what is possible on regular LCDs
when trying to optimize crispness, absence of pixellation and absence
of color fringes. What I need to do now is to fill in some details,
then optimization and a VM plugin. Then it could become the default
graphics engine for Cuis ( www.cuis-smalltalk.org[1][1] ).
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
 
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
I think it's great that you are sharing your rasterization approach.
So far it sounds pretty interesting. FWIW, after you've released the
code, I would be interested in using this approach to create a higher
quality, drop-in replacement for the current "Rasterize" stage in the
Gezira rendering pipeline.
Best,
Dan
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:24 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
 
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
 
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
This paves the way for releasing all the code, as no one will be able
to
patent it.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
 
 
------
[1] http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org
Links:
------
[1] http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org
shawnmorel
2014-09-19 15:55:23 UTC
Permalink
- I use something better than pixel coverage: pre filtering.
I’m actually really curious about this. Is there a version of this paper that you own copyrights to that you could point us to?
http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657
Would you be interested in creating a clean, totally not optimized (and thus slow), stand alone version of the rasterizer just for exposition purposes? Something for people like me to learn from? Again, I know you have very limited time. No rush.
Yes, I could do that. The features provided would be just drawing some shapes or glyphs, not unlike the snippet above, but trimmed of all superfluous Morphic stuff and experiments. Just give me a few days and I'll prepare it, in addition to fixing the "saturated color pixels" bug you mentioned.
I’d also add that for a newcomer, it might even help your rasterization ideas spread more. Much of the discussion here http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html starts with a discussion about improving on morphic, priming me to think about GUI toolkits and problems that arise there. Much of the meat of the content is about the rasterization ideas, which in my mind are quite different. e.g. you could build many things on the new rasterizer and you could build a new guy toolkit on many different rasterizers :)

shawn
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-19 20:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi Shawn,
- I use something better than pixel coverage: pre filtering.
 
I’m actually really curious about this. Is there a version of this
paper that you own copyrights to that you could point us to?
http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657
You can download it freely
from http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
​
Post by Dan Amelang
Would you be interested in creating a clean, totally not optimized
(and thus slow), stand alone version of the rasterizer just for
exposition purposes? Something for people like me to learn from?
Again, I know you have very limited time. No rush.
 
Yes, I could do that. The features provided would be just drawing some
shapes or glyphs, not unlike the snippet above, but trimmed of all
superfluous Morphic stuff and experiments. Just give me a few days and
I'll prepare it, in addition to fixing the "saturated color pixels" bug
you mentioned.
I’d also add that for a newcomer, it might even help your
rasterization ideas spread more. Much of the discussion
here http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html starts with
a discussion about improving on morphic, priming me to think about GUI
toolkits and problems that arise there. Much of the meat of the content
is about the rasterization ideas, which in my mind are quite different.
e.g. you could build many things on the new rasterizer and you could
build a new guy toolkit on many different rasterizers :)
 
Sure.​ Thanks for the feedback!
shawn
 
 
 
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-24 01:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
 
Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal to
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jensonw-900.png. But, I know
that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing wouldn't
be very high priority. Maybe down the road.
Please take a look
at Loading Image...
I used Times New Roman for the sample. It is similar but not identical to
the font in the Adobe demo image. I did it by converting the text to SVG in
Inkscape, then using Morphic 3 to draw the svg file.

There is no hinting at all here! Just better rasterization. The shape and
weight is truer and more uniform (especially at smaller sizes), most glyphs
look sharper. Starting from the third line, the quality is consistently
better.
Post by Dan Amelang
Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open sourced
Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too
(http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/).
As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the
state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're
making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the
quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to
do
Post by Dan Amelang
so.
I think the real contribution of Morphic 3 here is better rasterization,
that doesn't need hinting to give very crisp and detailed results.
Post by Dan Amelang
Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts,  I'm
attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more recent
M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the saturated colors
in the middle of the black text. You mentioned that you have color
fringing problems with <9 point sizes, but this font is about 12pt and
the problem doesn't look like color fringing (i.e., the coloring isn't
light nor just on the fringes, see
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gdi-cleartype.png for what I
understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is going
on here?
 
... snip ...
 
Dan
Yes. There was a bug there. It only happened for curve segments shorter
than one pixel, affecting only very small point sizes. Thanks for pointing
it out! The sample I prepared today clearly shows that the bug was fixed.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Dan Amelang
2014-09-24 21:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Juan,

Yes, that is some of the best TTF non-hinted rendering I've seen. Nice work!

And, yes, it does look like the bug is gone, thanks!

It will be interesting to look through a simplified, stand-alone(ish)
version of the code to fully grasp the detail of your approach. Again, no
rush, though.

Dan

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:50 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) <
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan,
Hi Juan,
Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal to
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jensonw-900.png. But, I know
that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing wouldn't be
very high priority. Maybe down the road.
Please take a look at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13285702/Morphic3-TimesNewRomanSample.png
I used Times New Roman for the sample. It is similar but not identical to
the font in the Adobe demo image. I did it by converting the text to SVG in
Inkscape, then using Morphic 3 to draw the svg file.
There is no hinting at all here! Just better rasterization. The shape and
weight is truer and more uniform (especially at smaller sizes), most glyphs
look sharper. Starting from the third line, the quality is consistently
better.
Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open sourced
Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too (
http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/).
As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the
state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're
making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the
quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to
do so.
I think the real contribution of Morphic 3 here is better rasterization,
that doesn't need hinting to give very crisp and detailed results.
Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts, I'm
attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more recent
M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the saturated colors in
the middle of the black text. You mentioned that you have color fringing
problems with <9 point sizes, but this font is about 12pt and the problem
doesn't look like color fringing (i.e., the coloring isn't light nor just
on the fringes, see
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gdi-cleartype.png for what I
understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is going on
here?
... snip ...
Dan
Yes. There was a bug there. It only happened for curve segments shorter
than one pixel, affecting only very small point sizes. Thanks for pointing
it out! The sample I prepared today clearly shows that the bug was fixed.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
shawnmorel
2014-09-24 22:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Agreed. these are impressive!

I was curious about the defensive disclosure. Are you intending to patent this work or simply preventing a non-open source implementation from claiming patent infringements? I’d be curious to try and recreate some of these results :)

shawn
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
Yes, that is some of the best TTF non-hinted rendering I've seen. Nice work!
And, yes, it does look like the bug is gone, thanks!
It will be interesting to look through a simplified, stand-alone(ish) version of the code to fully grasp the detail of your approach. Again, no rush, though.
Dan
Hi Dan,
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal to have a visual like this to for the comparison: http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jensonw-900.png. But, I know that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing wouldn't be very high priority. Maybe down the road.
Please take a look at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13285702/Morphic3-TimesNewRomanSample.png
I used Times New Roman for the sample. It is similar but not identical to the font in the Adobe demo image. I did it by converting the text to SVG in Inkscape, then using Morphic 3 to draw the svg file.
There is no hinting at all here! Just better rasterization. The shape and weight is truer and more uniform (especially at smaller sizes), most glyphs look sharper. Starting from the third line, the quality is consistently better.
Post by Dan Amelang
Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open sourced Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too (http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/). As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to do so.
I think the real contribution of Morphic 3 here is better rasterization, that doesn't need hinting to give very crisp and detailed results.
Post by Dan Amelang
Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts, I'm attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more recent M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the saturated colors in the middle of the black text. You mentioned that you have color fringing problems with <9 point sizes, but this font is about 12pt and the problem doesn't look like color fringing (i.e., the coloring isn't light nor just on the fringes, see http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gdi-cleartype.png for what I understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is going on here?
... snip ...
Dan
Yes. There was a bug there. It only happened for curve segments shorter than one pixel, affecting only very small point sizes. Thanks for pointing it out! The sample I prepared today clearly shows that the bug was fixed.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2014-09-25 02:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi Shawn,

I'm not intending to patent it. But I want to avoid others to patent it and
restrict my right (and yours) to use it. Feel free to use it as you please.
The code is MIT license, as is Cuis Smalltalk. In any case, I'd appreciate
reasonable and fair attribution of the ideas in stuff you, or anybody else,
publishes.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by shawnmorel
Agreed. these are impressive!
 
I was curious about the defensive disclosure. Are you intending to
patent this work or simply preventing a non-open source implementation
from claiming patent infringements? I’d be curious to try and recreate
some of these results :)
 
shawn
On Sep 24, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Dan Amelang
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
 
Yes, that is some of the best TTF non-hinted rendering I've seen. Nice work!
And, yes, it does look like the bug is gone, thanks!
 
It will be interesting to look through a simplified, stand-alone(ish)
version of the code to fully grasp the detail of your approach. Again,
no rush, though.
Dan
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:50 PM, J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Dan,
Post by Dan Amelang
Hi Juan,
 
Thanks for the screenshots, that helps a lot! Now, it would be ideal
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jensonw-900.png. But, I
know that you've got limited time to work on this, and such a thing
wouldn't be very high priority. Maybe down the road.
Please take a look
at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13285702/Morphic3-TimesNewRomanSample.png
Post by shawnmorel
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
I used Times New Roman for the sample. It is similar but not identical
to the font in the Adobe demo image. I did it by converting the text
to SVG in Inkscape, then using Morphic 3 to draw the svg file.
There is no hinting at all here! Just better rasterization. The shape
and weight is truer and more uniform (especially at smaller sizes),
most glyphs look sharper. Starting from the third line, the quality is
consistently better.
 
Post by Dan Amelang
Also, comparing your renderer+stroke font to the recently open
sourced Adobe font rasterizer would be interesting, too
(http://blog.typekit.com/2013/05/01/adobe-contributes-cff-rasterizer-to-freetype/).
As far as I can tell, Adobe's rasterizer is pretty much the the
state-of-the-art rasterizer for outline font rasterization. If you're
making the case that outline fonts are intrinsically unable to match the
quality of your stroke font, this comparison would be a convincing way to
do
Post by shawnmorel
Post by Dan Amelang
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Post by Dan Amelang
so.
I think the real contribution of Morphic 3 here is better
rasterization, that doesn't need hinting to give very crisp and
detailed results.
 
Post by Dan Amelang
Going back to the topic of Morphic 3 rendering TrueType fonts,  I'm
attaching a few unfiltered zooms from your M3-TTF.png (your more
recent M3-TTF-5.png looks the same in these areas). Notice the
saturated colors in the middle of the black text. You mentioned that
you have color fringing problems with <9 point sizes, but this font
is about 12pt and the problem doesn't look like color fringing (i.e.,
the coloring isn't light nor just on the fringes, see
http://typekit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gdi-cleartype.png for what
I understand color fringing to look like). Maybe something else is
going on here?
 
... snip ...
 
Dan
Yes. There was a bug there. It only happened for curve segments
shorter than one pixel, affecting only very small point sizes. Thanks
for pointing it out! The sample I prepared today clearly shows that
the bug was fixed.
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Josh Grams
2013-12-05 01:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
In figure 3, you need to use 2r or r/2 in some places; currently
the diagram declares that r = 2r.

--Josh
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2013-12-05 01:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi Josh,

I've checked it again just in case. The diagram says that
(w-r) < w < (w+r)
(w-r+r+r) = (w+r)
I think your comment is not correct. Please take another look at the figure.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Josh Grams
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
In figure 3, you need to use 2r or r/2 in some places; currently
the diagram declares that r = 2r.
--Josh
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Josh Grams
2013-12-05 10:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Josh,
I've checked it again just in case. The diagram says that
(w-r) < w < (w+r)
(w-r+r+r) = (w+r)
I think your comment is not correct. Please take another look at the figure.
Oh, wow. I totally read that diagram wrong. Sorry.

--Josh
Gath-Gealaich
2013-12-05 21:18:57 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:24:12 -0300
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
Anti-aliasing is usually considered a technique to avoid "stairway"
artifacts on rendered images. This is a simplistic view on the
problem. Aliasing is a consequence of sampling continuous functions
(images, photos, sound, etc). Makers of digital cameras and audio
software know and use the theory behind it. You can read more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem.
Researches know all this. The best text books say it. However,
existing graphics software completely ignore the theory.
... This allows for mathematically proved alias free rendering. As no
existing application does this ...
I'm sort of puzzled by this. I've always thought that this was the
whole idea behind the stochastic sampling thingy that the ILM/Pixar
people patented (http://www.google.com/patents/US4897806) in the 1980's
to achieve mathematically proven alias-free rendering (as you said) of
arbitrarily shaded arbitrary geometry (even shaded with non-analytical
functions). Of course, it trades aliasing for noise, but I believe
that you can have the noise arbitrarily low (and for animations, it may
not matter all that much anyway since one can expect some grain or
noisiness on live footage so completely noise-free sampling may even
look unnatural). They certainly didn't ignore the problem; they had
been studying numerous analytical and non-analytical solutions for a
better part of the 1980s and then finally striked gold with stochastic
sampling and PRMan.

-- Gath
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2013-12-06 11:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gath,

Stochastic sampling (1) is a method for trading aliasing for noise.
Result are neither alias free nor noise free. But it allows using Ray
Tracing and related techniques, and that is great for photorealistic
rendering of 3D stuff. This the kinds of problems Pixar works on.

OTOH, I focus in 2D vector graphics, and not in 3D rendering. And yes,
common implementations of OpenGL and libraries such as Cairo and AGG
don't do prefiltering (called 'Analytical Algorithms' by Cook).

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

(1)
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gfx/Courses/2003/ImageSynthesis/papers/Sampling/Stochastic%20Sampling%20in%20Computer%20Graphics.pdf
Post by Gath-Gealaich
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:24:12 -0300
Post by J. Vuletich (mail lists)
Hi Folks,
The first defensive disclosure about Morphic 3 has been accepted and
published at
http://www.defensivepublications.org/publications/prefiltering-antialiasing-for-general-vector-graphics
and http://ip.com/IPCOM/000232657 ..
Morphic 3 is described at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Morphic3/Morphic3-201006.html
Anti-aliasing is usually considered a technique to avoid "stairway"
artifacts on rendered images. This is a simplistic view on the
problem. Aliasing is a consequence of sampling continuous functions
(images, photos, sound, etc). Makers of digital cameras and audio
software know and use the theory behind it. You can read more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem.
Researches know all this. The best text books say it. However,
existing graphics software completely ignore the theory.
... This allows for mathematically proved alias free rendering. As no
existing application does this ...
I'm sort of puzzled by this. I've always thought that this was the
whole idea behind the stochastic sampling thingy that the ILM/Pixar
people patented (http://www.google.com/patents/US4897806) in the 1980's
to achieve mathematically proven alias-free rendering (as you said) of
arbitrarily shaded arbitrary geometry (even shaded with non-analytical
functions). Of course, it trades aliasing for noise, but I believe
that you can have the noise arbitrarily low (and for animations, it may
not matter all that much anyway since one can expect some grain or
noisiness on live footage so completely noise-free sampling may even
look unnatural). They certainly didn't ignore the problem; they had
been studying numerous analytical and non-analytical solutions for a
better part of the 1980s and then finally striked gold with stochastic
sampling and PRMan.
-- Gath
_______________________________________________
fonc mailing list
http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Shawn Morel
2013-12-06 17:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Stochastic sampling (1) is a method for trading aliasing for noise. Result are neither alias free nor noise free. But it allows using Ray Tracing and related techniques, and that is great for photorealistic rendering of 3D stuff. This the kinds of problems Pixar works on.
I’m actually curious to understand the distinction here between aliasing from rays sampling the 3d scene (geometry intersection, texture UV mapping, env lighting etc) and how that’s different from sampling a continuous function to figure out pixel coverage.

shawn
J. Vuletich (mail lists)
2013-12-06 23:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Shawn,

It is not aliasing that is different, but the algorithms for rasterization. When doing ray tracing for a 3d scne, you don't have an analytical model of the function to be sampled.
Stochastic sampling (1) is a method for trading aliasing for noise. Result are neither alias free nor noise free. But it allows using Ray Tracing and related techniques, and that is great for photorealistic rendering of 3D stuff. This the kinds of problems Pixar works on.
I?m actually curious to understand the distinction here between aliasing from rays sampling the 3d scene (geometry intersection, texture UV mapping, env lighting etc) and how that?s different from sampling a continuous function to figure out pixel coverage.
shawn
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
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